Dollhouse: Why You Shouldn't Quit Watching (Yet)
So it didn't get off to a great start, but after checking out two more episodes, "The Target" (aka Ep. 2 which airs Friday) and "Gray Hour" (aka Ep. 4 which airs March 6), I'm sort of optimistic... at least cautiously. It is from the mind of Joss Whedon, which means due to my undying fandom that I will sit and watch every episode no matter how crappy... though to be fair, none of the episodes of Dollhouse I've seen are really that terrible, it just occasionally dips into the procedural realm, or makes things utterly perplexing. Read on for some reasons I'll be watching (not really too spoilery, just some big highlights).
I get why someone would want to hire an "active" for sex, or to handle a delicate kidnapping or to complete a secret thieving mission (see Ep. 4) but why would you need to hire an active to be your midwife (also Ep. 4, but not a huge part of the story)? Aren't there qualified regular people who would work for a lot less? And unless you are giving birth to the Christ child (or the Antichrist... either way) or an alien, do you care if the person that ushered your little demon seed into the world forgets that you ever existed? Plus, the nutjob company that Echo works for knows your dealio, though not necessarily all the specifics, so why bother? Especially since in tomorrow night's episode they establish that Echo's services are very pricey indeed. I realize this seems like a nitpicky detail, but these are the things that get under my skin.
Oh, and then Mindy mentioned yesterday that she thought it was odd that the "actives" were implanted with imperfections (as seen in the pilot), which now that she mentioned it, is really annoying. If you were shelling out boatloads of cash, wouldn't you want a perfect specimen? Because otherwise, why not just hire a real human? So now this is bugging me. But, if you can get past these sorts of irksome and perplexing plot points and just go with it, the show is kind of fun.
In "The Target," there's lots of a very athletic Eliza Dushku doing sporty things, like rock climbing and rafting. Oh, and there are some really great action sequences with bows and arrows! And we get a bit more backstory on how/why Boyd came to work at the Dollhouse.
In "Gray Hour," there's a scantily clad Eliza Dushku looking like a hooker, and then some cool cat-burgling stuff. I'm always a fan of that, especially because when Eliza Dushku's all bad ass, it makes up for the fact that she doesn't have the biggest acting range in the world. (Sorry, I love her and will watch her in anything, but it is true.) "Gray Hour" also gets a bit more into the "who is trying to take down the Dollhouse?" and "what do they actives do when they aren't on assignments?" angles, which I actually really liked a lot. Much more so than the "OK, this week she's a high class whore, which is much different than last week when she was just a fake paid girlfriend" storylines.
Fair warning: If you are in it because you adore Amy Acker, prepare to be disappointed -- she's got like less than five minutes of screen time between the two episodes, though you do find out what scarred up her face.
I know, I'm probably not doing a good job of selling it, but remember, it is Joss. It's clear that this show is still finding its footing and isn't quite living up to its potential, but it does indeed have potential. If you look at it in that My Own Worst Enemy fun action sort of way, instead of expecting it to be Buffy, then it should be OK. This is a very different show than Buffy, and while it does have a little bit of a procedural nature to it, it is trying to be something a little bit off the beaten path for primetime TV. I just hope that we get enough episodes to see how it unfolds and really finds its footing.
Other reasons to watch Dollhouse
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w300/jimdog4life2k7/eliza_dushku_03.jpg)
(http://watchingdollhouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/sooliviawilliams1.jpg)
(http://allseriesmag.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/ic_04-dichen-lachman_0479_djrv2novigf.jpg)
(http://www.buddytv.com/articles/hot-list-Tahmoh-Penikett-2.jpg)
Doesn't do a thing for me, nope not even that last one. I don't think he is good looking at all. That is
the problem I will have with this show, I don't find any of the cast members likable or appealing and
that pretty much does a show in for me. I realize I am probably in the minority on that so it really
doesn't matter.
Quote from: Phyll33 on February 20, 2009, 03:31:05 PM
Doesn't do a thing for me, nope not even that last one. I don't think he is good looking at all. That is
the problem I will have with this show, I don't find any of the cast members likable or appealing and
that pretty much does a show in for me. I realize I am probably in the minority on that so it really
doesn't matter.
I'm happy to join you in the minority then, Phyll. What really bothered me is the cold calculation of all of the characters. The tech guy was just a little too gleeful about playing God with these people. They don't seem too picky about what kind of person they rent their Actives to (just need to be rich and exercise discretion). I do like Tamoh, but even he seems weighed down by the unending darkness. The only person who seemed the least bit redeemable was Echo's handler. But then again, he signed on to help them do this, so I question his ethics as well.
To a certain extent, I contrast it with Alias. Sydney worked for a group that ended up being bad guys. But the relationships she had built within that group made it believable and heartbreaking. Sloane was evil, but he still cared for her. Her partnership with Dixon was a true friendship, and they redeemed one another. Maybe if Echo starts to remember more of herself, it will be a little more emotionally reachable, but within the premise of the show, and what the show has 'told' us about it's world, I don't see that working well. The premise doesn't seem to lend itself to a long-running show.
Just MHO, of course ;)
Quote from: geogal on February 21, 2009, 10:13:13 AM
Quote from: Phyll33 on February 20, 2009, 03:31:05 PM
Doesn't do a thing for me, nope not even that last one. I don't think he is good looking at all. That is
the problem I will have with this show, I don't find any of the cast members likable or appealing and
that pretty much does a show in for me. I realize I am probably in the minority on that so it really
doesn't matter.
I'm happy to join you in the minority then, Phyll. What really bothered me is the cold calculation of all of the characters. The tech guy was just a little too gleeful about playing God with these people. They don't seem too picky about what kind of person they rent their Actives to (just need to be rich and exercise discretion). I do like Tamoh, but even he seems weighed down by the unending darkness. The only person who seemed the least bit redeemable was Echo's handler. But then again, he signed on to help them do this, so I question his ethics as well.
To a certain extent, I contrast it with Alias. Sydney worked for a group that ended up being bad guys. But the relationships she had built within that group made it believable and heartbreaking. Sloane was evil, but he still cared for her. Her partnership with Dixon was a true friendship, and they redeemed one another. Maybe if Echo starts to remember more of herself, it will be a little more emotionally reachable, but within the premise of the show, and what the show has 'told' us about it's world, I don't see that working well. The premise doesn't seem to lend itself to a long-running show.
Just MHO, of course ;)
I agree, I don't think it has longevity either and considering all the stories that could be told I know that is
an odd thing to say but unfortunately their star just doesn't seem to have the personality to carry this off.
Summer has more personality as a robot then she does and the rest of the cast so far just annoys me. I
might just let this one go to DVD for me if it picks up and wait and see if it goes anywhere.
Summer would probably be a better fit for Echo - but then it would literally be River 2.0 .
Quote from: AdmiralDigby on February 21, 2009, 02:33:39 PM
Summer would probably be a better fit for Echo - but then it would literally be River 2.0 .
Yes, she has more acting chops although they don't seem to be using that capability of her. Joss seems
to be a one note wonder with some of his leading ladies, kind of the same ole same ole in type as well as
substance. At least with Firefly he added a few more leading lady personalities to his repertoire even though
he did keep his waif in there.
I started to read the first post but I saw references to eps that haven't aired yet, and since I really want to remain completely unspoiled, I didn't continue the entire post.
That said, after seeing last night's ep, I agree, we should hold on for a bit. I liked it better. LOVED seeing Mark.
I'm glad there is a deeper, darker backstory, but the 'deep' stuff might be too 'deep', cuz the 'shallow' stuff was just that for me...way too shallow and transparent. The only think I'm hoping for is that I'm proved wrong on the things I'm thinking.
Just in case there are those out there who have a wacky tv viewing habit like mine:
[spoiler]I knew the guy was going to hunt her as soon as he was out there in the woods with her, talking about his dad's views and 'the hunt'....didn't help that the previews of the show gave enough away that that showed too....[/spoiler]
I'm also hoping that us having to keep 'going back and forth in time', noted by Joss' uses of the over staturation of color is just because of all that 'trouble' we kept hearing about...and he's trying to fit in the puzzle pieces for the studio's sake. Even a puzzle lover like myself is getting a little distracted by it.
I mean, from what I heard that was basically the reason "Daybreak" failed, is that people didn't like having to try to keep track of the 'when'. *shrug*
I still have a dislike for Ms. D, sorry guys, but I too would have rather seen Summer in this role. Can't help but believe that Ms. D saw herself as 'Playing Summer better'...and wanted that chance.
I'll keep watching as long as the line up stays the same. I'm glad it's on Fridays, for all the reasons Friday is usually the 'death night'...I don't go anywhere, so at least there is something on to watch. Not like on other nights when there are literally THREE things on opposing channels that I'd love to get involved with.
Oh, and now I"m wishing I'd tried to get caught up with Terminator...it looks a zillion times better than the last time I watched.
Somebody holler and let me know when this gets worth watching.
Quote from: TinkTanker on February 21, 2009, 06:50:17 PM
Somebody holler and let me know when this gets worth watching.
That's a long wait for a holler don't come.
Quote from: Saxon on February 21, 2009, 06:48:42 PM
I started to read the first post but I saw references to eps that haven't aired yet, and since I really want to remain completely unspoiled, I didn't continue the entire post.
That said, after seeing last night's ep, I agree, we should hold on for a bit. I liked it better. LOVED seeing Mark.
I'm glad there is a deeper, darker backstory, but the 'deep' stuff might be too 'deep', cuz the 'shallow' stuff was just that for me...way too shallow and transparent. The only think I'm hoping for is that I'm proved wrong on the things I'm thinking.
Just in case there are those out there who have a wacky tv viewing habit like mine:
[spoiler]I knew the guy was going to hunt her as soon as he was out there in the woods with her, talking about his dad's views and 'the hunt'....didn't help that the previews of the show gave enough away that that showed too....[/spoiler]
I'm also hoping that us having to keep 'going back and forth in thyme', noted by Joss' uses of the over staturation of color is just because of all that 'trouble' we kept hearing about...and he's trying to fit in the puzzle pieces for the studio's sake. Even a puzzle lover like myself is getting a little distracted by it.
I mean, from what I heard that was basically the reason "Daybreak" failed, is that people didn't like having to try to keep track of the 'when'. *shrug*
I still have a dislike for Ms. D, sorry guys, but I too would have rather seen Summer in this role. Can't help but believe that Ms. D saw herself as 'Playing Summer better'...and wanted that chance.
I'll keep watching as long as the line up stays the same. I'm glad it's on Fridays, for all the reasons Friday is usually the 'death night'...I don't go anywhere, so at least there is something on to watch. Not like on other nights when there are literally THREE things on opposing channels that I'd love to get involved with.
Oh, and now I"m wishing I'd tried to get caught up with Terminator...it looks a zillion times better than the last thyme I watched.
The previews did give the main theme of the show away didn't it. It's getting a little confusing and needs
to be watched more than once to get what's going on with the backstory. The trouble is I don't feel like
watching it more than once which is a big downer for any DVD's to come. Joss's shows have always been
eminently rewatchable and this isn't.
Summer may not have had the sexy chops going though. I'm sure she could have done it but for some
reason she just doesn't come across that way. She is a little too cool in that respect.
Quote from: Saxon on February 21, 2009, 06:48:42 PM
I mean, from what I heard that was basically the reason "Daybreak" failed, is that people didn't like having to try to keep track of the 'when'. *shrug*
People (as in viewers) or the studio stooges? I know so many people who liked and "got" Daybreak. I don't think the problem was with us... it was "them" and "they" didn't think we were smart enough follow.
Quote from: Saxon on February 21, 2009, 06:48:42 PM
I still have a dislike for Ms. D, sorry guys, but I too would have rather seen Summer in this role.
Agreed. I don't dislike Eliza, but I don't think she has the chops to carry a show (she could get better). I had the same feeling watching True Calling. If they'd had a stronger actress in that roll, I think it might have survived.
Quote from: Spooky on February 22, 2009, 11:21:18 AM
Quote from: Saxon on February 21, 2009, 06:48:42 PM
I mean, from what I heard that was basically the reason "Daybreak" failed, is that people didn't like having to try to keep track of the 'when'. *shrug*
People (as in viewers) or the studio stooges? I know so many people who liked and "got" Daybreak. I don't think the problem was with us... it was "them" and "they" didn't think we were smart enough follow.
Exactly! I'd never had as much fun deciphering a show since my old X-files days while Daybreak was on. That was a big mistake to drop it. I could see it moving to TNT and making it big. They seem to be getting some really good shows going there!
Quote from: Spooky on February 22, 2009, 11:24:00 AM
Quote from: Saxon on February 21, 2009, 06:48:42 PM
I still have a dislike for Ms. D, sorry guys, but I too would have rather seen Summer in this role.
Agreed. I don't dislike Eliza, but I don't think she has the chops to carry a show (she could get better). I had the same feeling watching True Calling. If they'd had a stronger actress in that roll, I think it might have survived.
Yep, again, I liked that show, just didn't like her.
I watched the 3rd episode last night and have to agree it is getting better and saw some Firefly attitude
in there but the problem I have with Joss is he is very formulaic. He reminds me of a very popular author
I read who writes the same story over and over with the same characters but just puts them in different
settings. This is what he does with his actors, they have the same look and personality just different backgrounds
to play the parts in. The cop's fight scene and words were very Mal like, Sierra is the spitten image of a
skinny Kaylee, and I imagine Eliza is playing very much like her self in Buffy with a little kick butt of River.
That scene above the stage looked very Serenity like. It was deja vu for me a lot of the time. He tells an
exciting story but it appears to be the same one over and over and so far, for me anyhow, he told it best in
Firefly.
Topher sounds a lot like Mr. Universe to me...
Quote from: Consigliere5 on March 01, 2009, 11:10:00 AM
Topher sounds a lot like Mr. Universe to me...
That character is really creepy to me and more off putting looks like someone I know although he's
shorter and more hunched over.
Quote from: Phyll33 on March 01, 2009, 08:48:33 AM
I watched the 3rd episode last night and have to agree it is getting better and saw some Firefly attitude
in there but the problem I have with Joss is he is very formulaic. He reminds me of a very popular author
I read who writes the same story over and over with the same characters but just puts them in different
settings. This is what he does with his actors, they have the same look and personality just different backgrounds
to play the parts in. The cop's fight scene and words were very Mal like, Sierra is the spitten image of a
skinny Kaylee, and I imagine Eliza is playing very much like her self in Buffy with a little kick butt of River.
That scene above the stage looked very Serenity like. It was deja vu for me a lot of the thyme. He tells an
exciting story but it appears to be the same one over and over and so far, for me anyhow, he told it best in
Firefly.
And the kid who does all the programming is a cross between Joss himself, and Wash to me. But I agree with you 100%. I'm sure that's why folks like Joss's stuff, but I'm also sure that's the exact reason some folks don't.
Funny, but to me Leverage has all our FF types in it...makes me wonder if we have some of the old writers or others of influence there?
Also, on this last show:
[spoiler]why couldn't they have programmed her as a 'body guard' hired to protect her, who was 'undercover' as just a background singer? Making her feel she 'had to protect her at all costs'..without a real reason, made her as creepy as the fake 'biggest fan' and the real stalker. [/spoiler]
I haven't watched Friday's show, but did Echo's programming break down again? 'Cause if it did, that's three for three and given the whole Alpha fiasco, don't you think they'd realize they might have a faulty business plan?
Quote from: TinkTanker on March 02, 2009, 05:48:40 AM
I haven't watched Friday's show, but did Echo's programming break down again? 'Cause if it did, that's three for three and given the whole Alpha fiasco, don't you think they'd realize they might have a faulty business plan?
Not really( unless you count her visions after being drugged ) but you're right about the business model . One of the head baddies even mentions putting her in the "Attic" .
Also , Echo is not as "wipe-able" as the others which is made clear at the end .
It may be one that we catch up with when a number of episodes become available.
Quote from: TinkTanker on March 02, 2009, 06:14:25 AM
It may be one that we catch up with when a number of episodes become available.
I'm thinking that wouldn't be unwise .
I'm sure if ione could plow through six or eight eps over an afternoon that'd it be a heck of a lot better .
I'm *really* curious about Alpha and the FBI guy .
The premise for Dollhouse is nonsensical though .
Then again that's been pointed out within the confines of the show so we'll see .
Quote from: Saxon on March 01, 2009, 09:45:08 PM
Quote from: Phyll33 on March 01, 2009, 08:48:33 AM
I watched the 3rd episode last night and have to agree it is getting better and saw some Firefly attitude
in there but the problem I have with Joss is he is very formulaic. He reminds me of a very popular author
I read who writes the same story over and over with the same characters but just puts them in different
settings. This is what he does with his actors, they have the same look and personality just different backgrounds
to play the parts in. The cop's fight scene and words were very Mal like, Sierra is the spitten image of a
skinny Kaylee, and I imagine Eliza is playing very much like her self in Buffy with a little kick butt of River.
That scene above the stage looked very Serenity like. It was deja vu for me a lot of the thyme. He tells an
exciting story but it appears to be the same one over and over and so far, for me anyhow, he told it best in
Firefly.
And the kid who does all the programming is a cross between Joss himself, and Wash to me. But I agree with you 100%. I'm sure that's why folks like Joss's stuff, but I'm also sure that's the exact reason some folks don't.
Funny, but to me Leverage has all our FF types in it...makes me wonder if we have some of the old writers or others of influence there?
Also, on this last show:
[spoiler]why couldn't they have programmed her as a 'body guard' hired to protect her, who was 'undercover' as just a background singer? Making her feel she 'had to protect her at all costs'..without a real reason, made her as creepy as the fake 'biggest fan' and the real stalker. [/spoiler]
I think they explained the reason for that in the early part of the show but I forgot what exactly they said
and I've already cleared it from my DVR. I'm looking forward to getting the DVD of Leverage. It sounds like
something I would like.
Quote from: TinkTanker on March 02, 2009, 05:48:40 AM
I haven't watched Friday's show, but did Echo's programming break down again? 'Cause if it did, that's three for three and given the whole Alpha fiasco, don't you think they'd realize they might have a faulty business plan?
Not so much broke down but added to. Her handler explained it at the end of the show that she seems to
take the new personalities and adds to it and puts her own stamp on to the personality. Instead of being
programmed what to do she does it on her own while being that personality. She is also retaining a little
bit of each one she takes on it seems too. A convoluted concept that may be more than most will want to
take on.
A convoluted concept that may be more than most will want to
take on.
And yet there's our "journey" which is supposed to be the main driving point behind the show .
( at least that's how I understand it )
She's River 2.0 only lit differently .
Now all we need is for her "brother" to break her out and seek sanctuary with a group of folk living on the fringe of society .
;)
Quote from: AdmiralDigby on March 02, 2009, 07:37:04 AM
A convoluted concept that may be more than most will want to
take on.
And yet there's our "journey" which is supposed to be the main driving point behind the show .
( at least that's how I understand it )
She's River 2.0 only lit differently .
Now all we need is for her "brother" to break her out and seek sanctuary with a group of folk living on the fringe of society .
;)
I think that is where the cop comes in. Echo seems to be a combination of a number of female characters
he has created which may be the reason for the name. She is echoing the feeling and style of previous
characters plus the personalities on the show. Sort of Joss's homage to those that went before. That would
be like him to do that.
Quote from: Phyll33 on March 02, 2009, 08:32:36 AM
Quote from: AdmiralDigby on March 02, 2009, 07:37:04 AM
A convoluted concept that may be more than most will want to
take on.
And yet there's our "journey" which is supposed to be the main driving point behind the show .
( at least that's how I understand it )
She's River 2.0 only lit differently .
Now all we need is for her "brother" to break her out and seek sanctuary with a group of folk living on the fringe of society .
;)
I think that is where the cop comes in. Echo seems to be a combination of a number of female characters
he has created which may be the reason for the name. She is echoing the feeling and style of previous
characters plus the personalities on the show. Sort of Joss's homage to those that went before. That would
be like him to do that.
I think their names come from the phonetic alphabet (the one the military and police use) Alpha, Echo, Sierra, (Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Foxtrot, Golf, Hotel, India,
Juliet, Kilo, Lima, Mike, November, Oscar, Papa, Quebec, Romeo, Tango, Uniform, Victor, Whiskey, Xray, Yankee, Zulu).
I guess we'll see after we meet more of them.
[spoiler]And let's not forget Victor. Didn't see that coming.[/spoiler]
And as we say often at work, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!
Quote from: SerenityValley on March 02, 2009, 09:35:08 AM
Quote from: Phyll33 on March 02, 2009, 08:32:36 AM
Quote from: AdmiralDigby on March 02, 2009, 07:37:04 AM
A convoluted concept that may be more than most will want to
take on.
And yet there's our "journey" which is supposed to be the main driving point behind the show .
( at least that's how I understand it )
She's River 2.0 only lit differently .
Now all we need is for her "brother" to break her out and seek sanctuary with a group of folk living on the fringe of society .
;)
I think that is where the cop comes in. Echo seems to be a combination of a number of female characters
he has created which may be the reason for the name. She is echoing the feeling and style of previous
characters plus the personalities on the show. Sort of Joss's homage to those that went before. That would
be like him to do that.
I think their names come from the phonetic alphabet (the one the military and police use) Alpha, Echo, Sierra, (Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Foxtrot, Golf, Hotel, India,
Juliet, Kilo, Lima, Mike, November, Oscar, Papa, Quebec, Romeo, Tango, Uniform, Victor, Whiskey, Xray, Yankee, Zulu).
I guess we'll see after we meet more of them.
[spoiler]And let's not forget Victor. Didn't see that coming.[/spoiler]
I was surprised too .
And in a good way .
:)
I'm thinkin' the next few eps will give some more insight into what is going on, what is supposed to be going on, what's gone wrong, and what's possible.
I agree that their names are 'code names'...since they mention the new girl as having a name used by another/previeous one.
So far, it's enough to keep me watching. I love the geek with his wisecracks. I don't like some of the stuff that seems so obviously screwed up, but then, *hoping*, maybe I'll be proved wrong later on.
I don't mind being confused, if things are cleared up enough to keep me going. I like it when I can't figure things out, so yeah, that little surprise [spoiler]with victor[/spoiler] made the whole ep for me!