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[TinkTanker]

Tim Minear didn't object to the episode order. He said Fox wanted the strongest episodes to air early to build an audience and Tim agreed or at least didn't fight them over it. Fox hated the pilot, that's why they asked for another one. They thought the second pilot was better and went with it first. Off the top of my head, I can only think of one other time that a second pilot was commissioned for a TV series. (Star Trek.)

Why would Fox invest millions of dollars in a project only to intentionally sabotage it? Explain how that in any way makes sense. The fact is that people stayed away in droves. It was 98th out of about 120 or so shows that year. The last time I went to D*C and sat in on a panel, Mark Sheppard addressed the "someone out to get Firefly" theory. He said there was nothing to it, Fox is a network and the ratings were terrible. That doesn't mean it was a terrible show, just that people didn't watch it.

As far as bumping it for the World Series, that happens to most every Fox show in the fall. Fox wanted four episode of Glee to air this fall before the World Series to air and interrupt things, but that ain't happening. Firefly averaged less than five million viewers in 2002, the World Series pulled in another 15 million viewers on top of that in 2002 and that year was down 25% from the previous year.

Friday night is the death slot, always has been. In fact, since the X-Files, there has only been one scripted show on Fox to make it an additional season season and that was Fringe.

[Phyll33]

Tim Minear didn't object to the episode order. He said Fox wanted the strongest episodes to air early to build an audience and Tim agreed or at least didn't fight them over it. Fox hated the pilot, that's why they asked for another one. They thought the second pilot was better and went with it first. Off the top of my head, I can only think of one other time that a second pilot was commissioned for a TV series. (Star Trek.)

Why would Fox invest millions of dollars in a project only to intentionally sabotage it? Explain how that in any way makes sense. The fact is that people stayed away in droves. It was 98th out of about 120 or so shows that year. The last time I went to D*C and sat in on a panel, Mark Sheppard addressed the "someone out to get Firefly" theory. He said there was nothing to it, Fox is a network and the ratings were terrible. That doesn't mean it was a terrible show, just that people didn't watch it.

As far as bumping it for the World Series, that happens to most every Fox show in the fall. Fox wanted four episode of Glee to air this fall before the World Series to air and interrupt things, but that ain't happening. Firefly averaged less than five million viewers in 2002, the World Series pulled in another 15 million viewers on top of that in 2002 and that year was down 25% from the previous year.

Friday night is the death slot, always has been. In fact, since the X-Files, there has only been one scripted show on Fox to make it an additional season season and that was Fringe.

  Your contradicting yourself Tink. Of course Tim Minear objected he just didn't admit he objected.  Everyone on the show knew
that the pilot was the strongest episode to introduce Firefly and was also the one they used to promote it. If anyone says  they
were on board with the change they are lying, they were just trying to placate the powers that be. If Fox was so gung ho for
this show and didn't have ill will toward it then they wouldn't have put it on Friday night in the death slot. Someone set it up
to fail under the guise of giving it a chance. Of course it didn't have the numbers, of course the ratings were terrible, people
didn't watch it for a reason and it wasn't because it wasn't a good show.  It was deliberately set up to have too many odds to
overcome and when that happened the powers that be that didn't like it or Joss got their wish in a way that made them look like
they gave it a chance. Mark was lying and being diplomatic. He didn't want to spoil his chances of being picked up on other Fox
shows. Actors aren't going to come out in public and bite the hand that feeds them.

[TinkTanker]

So we can't go by what Tim said, nor Mark. Okay.

The people that paid for the pilot --- Fox --- didn't like the pilot but were committed enough to order another one. Why would they continue to spend money on a project they wanted to fail?

[Eric]

All bets are off when humans and egos are involved; be it from maliciousness, willful ignorance or incompetency.

Sounds pretty much like politics, doesn't it?

[Rosie]

So we can't go by what Tim said, nor Mark. Okay.

The people that paid for the pilot --- Fox --- didn't like the pilot but were committed enough to order another one. Why would they continue to spend money on a project they wanted to fail?

You said agree to disagree. Usually to me that means no more saying why you think you are right.

You seem to be stuck on Why Fox did this? It makes no sense.

Fox is not a person it a company with many pieces.
Someone buys the property.
Someone markets the property.
Someone schedules the property.
Someone cancels it, usually supported by numbers.

I believe, aside from someone wishing they never bought Firefly in the first place, realized it cost more than producing Joe Millionaire. Someone preferred reality TV.

Possibly someone had it out for Joss for some unreasonable reason.

Why Fox failed we will never know.

My point is Firefly never failed. We were right. New Browncoats arriving everyday to Firefly fans .net and Done The Impossible is now available on Netflix.


Firefly was right. Fox was wrong.

[TinkTanker]

You said agree to disagree. Usually to me that means no more saying why you think you are right.

I'll do what I should have done earlier then and STFU.

[Phyll33]

So we can't go by what Tim said, nor Mark. Okay.

The people that paid for the pilot --- Fox --- didn't like the pilot but were committed enough to order another one. Why would they continue to spend money on a project they wanted to fail?

I'm not trying to shut you up I'm just trying to bring up that there were
personalities involved that affected this decision. Did you ever think that
the second pilot that they insisted upon was maybe not expected to come
to fruition? Joss and Tim have hinted in the past that they pulled The Train
Job out of their hat in a few days and they worked like dogs to get it done
much to the surprise of the powers that be. I have a feeling the powers that
be didn't expect them to do that. Someone wanted to work with Joss and
convinced someone else that this would be a good thing BUT someone at
the top wasn't impressed, thought he was right and decided to fulfill that
prediction.

Fox even came out later after many of those that were once in charge left
and said they treated the show badly and may have jumped the gun on
canceling it. We will never know the whole story since too many aren't talking
but the low ratings they created was not the real reason just the excuse.

[AdmiralDigby]

Not enough people watched , Fox pulled the plug ( and later admitted they were mistaken to do so . Was the plug-pulling helped along by suits clashing with Joss and Tim ? I can believe that , suits are stupid and Joss can be pretty condescending )

[Rosie]

Not enough people watched , Fox pulled the plug ( and later admitted they were mistaken to do so . Was the plug-pulling helped along by suits clashing with Joss and Tim ? I can believe that , suits are stupid and Joss can be pretty condescending )

[AdmiralDigby]